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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  11:05:55  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is Matt and Iíve got a great new project for you. We want to build a commuter vehicle and we need your help.

This vehicle will be affordable and eco friendly. The features and aesthetics will be chosen entirely by popular vote. The more people who engage in voting the better. So please share the facebook poles, and get your friends and family involved.

All results will be posted on our web page. including an interactive 3D model. As the building begins we will log the build on our YouTube channel for everyone to follow along with. When done the vehicle will be tested and revised by vote. This repeats till the vehicles last vote.

Last vote, The vehicle is good. Yes or no. If youíre in, show us some love! First vote starts tomorrow 2/14/2020. Each vote lasts 2-3 days. Should be enough time to allow everyone to talk and vote.

See the video for an introduction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Ka2MoxzwU

See the web page for more details.
http://www.centurialinc.com/commuter-car

See our FaceBook to follow the votes.
https://www.facebook.com/centurialinc/

Subscribe to our YouTube channel to follow the design and build. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGk1ZTXFAbiYUG4i3GrAoqw

Balor
recumbent guru

Russia
832 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  15:36:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think 'should' instead of 'will' is more humble (and realistic) ;)

Getting 100 mpg vehicle is very easy. Making it practicable enough is not though...
Autocycle Pulse is close to your goal - reported about 70 mpg. Making it electric will increase efficiently significantly but decrease range and increase cost. I think diamond quad 'motorcycle with training wheels' layout is underappreciated, and it can be made 'semi-leaning'.

To be fair, you model looks like a HPV w/o pedals, suspension and room for motor, hardly something rideable, yet alone practicable.

Please make a better WRITTEN introduction, don't make us waste time on watching videos.
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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  16:18:54  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the comments Balor.

It all depends on the votes. The 3D model is only a draft. As voting begins it will almost certainly change.

We are including other forums in the votes. The motorcycle community wants it to be 2 wheels. No surprise there. lol

Details such as suspension and engine or electric are not yet set. and will effect the design to a large degree.

Sorry the introduction is not to your liking. But it's how decide to do it and we stand by it.

Best Matt

Centurial
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3607 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  17:39:30  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No engine = ecological

C:
Tony Levand
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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  19:31:45  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ah, I was waiting for the peddle power comment.

That would make this commuter a velomobile for sure.

Can't wait for that vote.

Electric, Gas, Peddle.

Thanks for the comment. Best Matt



Centurial
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ElectricStreamliner
New Member

Australia
67 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  19:41:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1) Wheels: Three bicycle wheels, tadpole or delta configuration with disc brakes. Two wheels means falling over.

2) Power: based on pedal power yet offering electric assist, electric, petrol power bolt on options to suit the most people and legal requirements.



If you don't use pedal power you can make the vehicle a lot smaller, if the vehicle will be large enough might as well make it compatible with pedal power.

3) Cargo area: fit that in somewhere. Baby seat? Trailer hitch?

4) Comfort: suspension? seat angle and construction? space to move around? fans, air holes, or air conditioning?

5) Frame: Simple as possible to lower costs.

6) Fairing: pack everything into a sleek laminar flow fairing for maximum efficiency. Vital that it looks fast/cool or no one will want it.

There would have to be serious compromises to meet $2,000 USD build cost. I'll be interested what you end up making.

Edited by - ElectricStreamliner on 02/13/2020 19:50:16
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3607 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  19:59:39  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just threw out some 1000 mpg Shell eco marathon cars, they didnt fit in my van...yes 100 mpg is hardly worth the effort. My Honda Insight got 70 mpg.

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/04/cal_poly_wins_f.html

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 02/13/2020 20:02:28
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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  20:14:46  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very detailed reply ElectricStreamliner. I bet you have a lot of experience in this area. Your opinions will be very valuable.

This is a vote topic. So its hard to say exactly what will happen. The motorcycle crowd is going for two wheels. So if you guys don't like that you will have to out vote them.

What I had in mind is bike parts, an electric bike conversion, or gas, fully enclose, trike for legal reasons and stability. All the parts and raw material add up to about $1500 (so far). Sheet metal construction like an air plane. the suspension and seating is personal preference but if it was me. I want a reclined seat and suspension. I'll do my best to make it look good. That will be a vote as well. If the looks are not good I will redesign and keep trying.

Best Matt

Centurial
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Balor
recumbent guru

Russia
832 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2020 :  23:46:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Funny enough, 'pedal power' is not exactly ecological provided that you have other means to fulfil your 'daily motion requirement' (and it is not that great provided you don't have aspiration of becoming an 'athlete').
Human is about as (in)efficient as a combustion engine, emits greenhouse gases like a combustion engine, and food industry (including growing and delivering) is even more damaging to environment than oil industry. Packing a human that has to exert himself heavily into an enclosed space, steer and pedal makes things *practicable* harder by an order of magnitude - it must include elaborate ventilation and defogging systems for instance. Full glass canopy will turn the vehicle into a solar cooker in summer, btw.

Electric motor is none of that, but the problem is with batteries - that are not all that 'green' and not everyone has their solar charging station, and 'grid electricity' comes from burning same fossil fuels mostly (though with much greater efficiency and 'waste' heat can be use for water heating - at least that's how it is done in Russia).

And btw, 'design by committee' is a deragotary term for a reason, unfortunately. Usually it results in a compromise that really does not suit anyone and, hence, nobody is going to buy.
To overcome 'thought inertia' and general disdain of new things, your commuter must be significantly better than status quo in all respects, not just MPG - or at least not WORSE.

Edited by - Balor on 02/14/2020 00:03:59
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Balor
recumbent guru

Russia
832 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  00:01:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Btw, Hephasteus (Mechanical and biomechanical engineer) did a series of blog posts exactly on this topic:

http://lefthandedcyclist.blogspot.com/2012/01/rx-for-healthy-commute.html
http://lefthandedcyclist.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-optimal-all-weather-ped-electric.html

(there are other posts in interim and all of them are very interesting).
Two-wheel requirement for a fully-faired *commuter* is silly and should not even be considered (talking of design by committee). I fully agree with all his points.

There are tempting legal reasons to make your 'commuter' an e-bike, but since it is faired it's motor should be geared to rather puny 'legal' speeds and help only on hills and accelerations (and provide regen braking I presume - which is very important for a heavy, aerodynamics vehicle).

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alevand
human power expert

USA
3607 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  07:58:28  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You can buy this shell kit online, original it was made for a the salt flat speed record. Windshield is simple curve.





C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 02/14/2020 08:00:37
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warren
human power expert

USA
6488 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  15:27:23  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The biggest question you will need to answer is, is this a motorcycle or a car or is it a bike? If it goes over 20MPH and has no pedal power it's considered motorcycle (2 or 3 wheels) or a car (4 wheels). If it's a motorcycle or a car it must be registered to drive it on the streets. If you want to register it you cannot use bicycle parts, you will need to use DOT approved wheels and brakes, etc. Your best bet is to modify an existing vehicle and add a fairing to it.

Have you seen the Vetter faired motorcycle blog?
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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  16:26:55  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No not yet. I will look at those examples you all have mentioned.

Very good points and yes the registration is a big concern. But it will be the last obstacle for us to address.

If the vote heads towards pedal power with assist then we can register as a bike. But if not and it heads towards a motorcycle then that's what I will have to register it as.

You are the back seat drivers in this big journey. Remember this is mostly about fun. Who knows if it will go anywhere after it's built. So just enjoy the journey first and foremost.

Best Matt

Centurial
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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  16:28:34  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
First Vote
Let's get the big one out of the way. This will affect the design, and cost, the most. So this is where we will start.

Power Plant.

Gas, Electric, Pedal, Pedal Assist.

Make your case to the group. You can reply here if you like with your vote. Make only 1 choice. But the web page for the project has the vote on it and is automatic. It would help a lot If you voted there and talked about it here. Go to http://www.centurialinc.com/commuter-car vote is at the bottom of that page.

I'm going with gas, it's easy, I know it well and the cost to go electric is 2 times more expensive at least. Fast refueling longer range. No pedals. Any thoughts?

Best Matt




Centurial
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ElectricStreamliner
New Member

Australia
67 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  18:41:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was thinking about this yesterday.

Two wheels is better in every way except for balancing, starting, stopping, parking and falling over painfully. Landing gear may be a solution.

Recumbent seating position will be most comfortable and fastest. Engine behind the seat. It would be interesting to make a direct fuel consumption comparison between the 49cc motor powered vehicle and commercial motorcycles traveling at the same speed.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3607 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  18:54:48  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Make one of these:



C:
Tony Levand
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rohorn
New Member

USA
50 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  19:43:34  Show Profile  Visit rohorn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Will it be designed & built by the same person that designed & built the "Rear suspension" on this "Race car"?


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Garrie L Hill
human power supergeek

USA
1819 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  20:16:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heh! I believe you are thinking of the wrong vehicle, here. This is obviously the new four wheel drive lean steer prototype being discussed in another thread on BROL.

Garrie "carbon based lifeform" Hill
HPRA Co-Dictator of the East
for pics of some of my time and money sucking projects
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/cfbb/
and videos
http://vimeo.com/5513519


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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  20:51:30  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rohorn

Will it be designed & built by the same person that designed & built the "Rear suspension" on this "Race car"?






Yup that's our Global Time attack car. Supper budget race car. It's all rigid. No suspension. Should be done this year.

Centurial
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rohorn
New Member

USA
50 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2020 :  20:55:08  Show Profile  Visit rohorn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Garrie, that's funny - just made my day...

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alevand
human power expert

USA
3607 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2020 :  07:40:43  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It was designed by committee. I think it will pogo stick, bounce on the tires, before frame compliances become an issue, above 40 mph, let some air out of the tires.

C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 02/15/2020 07:43:24
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Centurial
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2020 :  20:01:31  Show Profile  Visit Centurial's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Voting finished. Not many votes. 7 total. But, I got a lot of feed back from everyone. Some of it was the dumbest and meanest s**t you can think of. But some of you know what your talking about and made some very good suggestions that I took. You know who you are and I thank you for your positive input. I also want to thank the haters. You motivate me to prove you wrong. You know who you are and I thank you for that.

Soooooo. I took that feed back and revised the concept.

In first place. Gas with 4 total votes LOL.
In second place. Peddle/assist 2 votes
In third place. electric 1 vote

Most did not want three wheels. Makes sens you all ride..... So a motorcycle it is. GAS! highway legal? I will do my best but that is a hard goal to reach. Surface streets for sure.

Here is the new concept. the large wheels are out riggers that catch the bike and prevent tipping. They will be retractable. Hate it? Love it? you decide...... Next vote starts soon. I will let you know when it opens.



Centurial
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3607 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2020 :  21:17:24  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The outriggers don't need to be that big diameter,there is not much weight on them, they retract at 10 mph on the monoracer. Its harder to retract and fit the big wheels into the shell. The monotracer's outrigger wheels protrude from the fairing when up, just in case it is will drop on them and not the fairing.

I hope you continue to post your progress.

another one:
http://cabinbike.com/Enclosed%20motorcycle%20body.htm


Non-retracting outruggers:


C:
Tony Levand

Edited by - alevand on 02/20/2020 07:23:58
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warren
human power expert

USA
6488 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2020 :  09:11:27  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What the! No suspension? LOL that is not a car it's a go-cart. Matthew, I'm hoping that your Global Time attack car is going to be modified to have full suspension before it is ever driven hard. There are no racetracks that are smooth. I know, I have raced on a bunch of them. Between bumps and cracks and expansion joints that car will be spending a lot of time in the air which will mean lost traction when accelerating, braking and turning. All things that a race car does constantly. Plus the driver will be beat to hell. Let me paint you a scenario. You are hitting a corner fast, at near the traction limit of your tires. You encounter a small bump which kicks the entire car up, because it can't just deflect the wheels. You lose traction and head to the wall, field or other nonmovable objects that line the outside of the corner. I have been there and done that and it's something that I wish to avoid in the future.

Edited by - warren on 02/20/2020 09:13:41
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