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SpiderMonkey
recumbent guru

USA
833 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2021 :  16:51:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Driver ran a red into my wife while she was with walk signal in crosswalk going up to trail. Guy barely screeched to a halt before flattening her, she locked up brakes on the upright I built her and went like a 1/2 header.

What didn't break was any of the CF I built, nor the Chinese CF fork, etc. The bar-end was toast though.

--SpiderMonkey

Edited by - SpiderMonkey on 04/05/2021 16:52:36

alevand
human power expert

USA
3901 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2021 :  17:28:54  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good that something adsorbed the impact.

C:
Tony Levand
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Jerry
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2021 :  19:09:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hope see is better off than the bike! In Texas a red light means speed up!
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Tom Schneider
recumbent enthusiast

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  05:23:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jerry

I hope see is better off than the bike! In Texas a red light means speed up!


I remember a taxi ride in Matamoros, The traffic light a block ahead was starting to change to red. So the driver accelerated!

Tom
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SpiderMonkey
recumbent guru

USA
833 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  08:53:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like Tony, I think the bar-ends provided an excellent disposable impact absorber, at only $14 a pair. This was at an intersection where we used to bike a lot with the kid on the way to a longer ride. (No long rides on these trails anymore as Covid has made them impassible.)

It's a spot where drivers are allowed to turn right on red from a busy road onto another, busier road "when pedestrians are not present." The bike trail picks up on one side of this crosswalk, and the other side (though technically just a sidewalk) is, for about 400m, the main connection between that and another bike trail.



We have always lived in fear of the aholes turning right here, because they ignore the "when pedestrians are not present" part of the rules, and in fact, don't even bother looking. Normally, this is most dangerous when you're crossing South-North, because they will run you down from over your left shoulder. In DC, they are starting to redesign intersection like this in a "Dutch" style that forces right lane traffic to stop 5-10m further back, and has a stop arrow when the pedestrian signal is on, to avert these car murder traps.

In this case, Jen was proceeding southbound, at low speed, watching a line of cars run the red (not even stopping first, just running it) to turn right despite the walk signal. Even though she expected someone to run the signal, the speed this geezer took was still a big enough surprise to put her over her bars, halfway, even at very low speed. (She said she wouldn't have gone over the top on a 'bent.)



--SpiderMonkey
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3901 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  10:33:45  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most accidents (car-bike) happen at intersections. Statistics, twice as likely to be in a fatal accident on the bike trail as riding in traffic. Your wife needs to keep eye contact with the drivers, if they aren't looking at you yell at them or don't proceed. Ive had 2, one landed me in the ER.

C:
Tony Levand
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SpiderMonkey
recumbent guru

USA
833 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  13:53:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree, but if I gave that lecture then I'd have to go to the emergency room. I do a lot of waving and flailing at these crossings and I don't proceed until I know they see me. When I was commuting in and out of Chicago from Bridgeview I also used an AirZounds horn, and that was a great help. I'd use it all the time to give a friendly quick toot when I wanted to make sure a driver knew I was there.

--SpiderMonkey
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SpiderMonkey
recumbent guru

USA
833 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  13:56:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read an article one time about how stray dogs in some cities had learned to navigate these kinds of dangerous intersections more safely by crossing partway down the block, where there were only 2 directions of traffic to contend with, rather than all the inputs at the crossing.

--SpiderMonkey
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warren
human power expert

USA
6690 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  15:32:42  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow, that's scary. I'm happy Jen didn't get hurt!
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Joel DIckman
recumbent enthusiast

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2021 :  19:04:41  Show Profile  Visit Joel DIckman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by alevand

...Statistics, twice as likely to be in a fatal accident on the bike trail as riding in traffic...

C:
Tony Levand



Hello Tony,

This does not sound right to me. Please direct us to the source of this statistic.

My experience is that cycling accidents of various kinds are more likely on multi-use paths than on the street. The path is more anarchic, with a mix of cyclists, runners, walkers etc. Not to mention cars at intersections along the path. But the path accidents are generally not fatal.

Collisions between cyclists and motorists while street riding may be less frequent, but more deadly. That is just my untutored impression. I cannot quote you NHTSA statistical chapter and verse. But maybe I am all wrong about this. Wouldn't be the first time.

Safe riding,
Joel Dickman

These three prevent most accidents: seeing, being seen, & (usually) common sense.
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SpiderMonkey
recumbent guru

USA
833 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2021 :  10:00:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NTSB data on this as of 2018 is here:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/812502_pedestrian-and-bicyclist-data-analysis-tsf-research-note.pdf

70% of cyclist fatalities are urban
67% of them from 9 pm to 6 am, 50% from midnight to 6 am -- so considering the absolute numbers drop in cycling at those hours, the risk / mile must increase astronomically.
Fatalities relatively evenly split by day of week

Most fatalities are non-intersection.
Intersections (controlled and not) are responsible for fewer fatalities. (Maybe more accidents? Open road hits are probably higher speed, greater chance of fatality?)

Bike lane is way down the list.



What happened right before the incident? Of course, the finding is that the cyclist normally failed to yield the right of way, "wasn't visible" or failed to obey a sign or signal. Of course, this history is written by the winners, who weren't dead, and could thus give the ubiquitous excuse that the cyclist was at fault, or invisible.



As has been found in numerous studies in the US and everywhere else, car speed is the main problem. For cyclists and pedestrians, there is virtually zero fatality when cars are <20 mph. A few at 25, then all the rest. Injury numbers are highest in the 25-30 mph zones.

Since the same stats say that speeding was only involved 30% of the time, the simplest solution is clear (as also noted by all those studies), SLOW DOWN THE CARS where cylists ride.

--SpiderMonkey
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3901 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2021 :  21:16:58  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote


C:
Tony Levand
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Jerry
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2021 :  07:24:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://warren-law.com/blog/common-bicycle-accidents-right-hook/ . In towns and cities the right hook causes most cycling accidents. I prefer the Dutch design.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3901 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2021 :  07:35:13  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Roundabouts:


C:
Tony Levand
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Jerry
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2021 :  15:49:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Roundabouts suck! At least in MO, LA, and TX. Everyone thinks as long as they are right behind someone they don't ever have to stop. A yield sign means nothing to these idiots. Oh, yield sign means to speed up and get on the cars bumper ahead of me and then I don't have to stop. I try to explain to people one car from one direction goes and then one from the other. Nope, whoever gets to the roundabout first all the traffic behind them have the right away and the other 3 directions have to stop. You will get your ass run over in Texas at a roundabout! I avoid them like the plague.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3901 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2021 :  07:40:01  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote


C:
Tony Levand
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Jerry
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2021 :  11:28:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been thinking and saying for over 40 years all junctions should have an overpass. And here in TX at major interchanges there are left u-turn only lanes at over passes. This way you don't have to sit at a red light then make a 90 degree turn and sit at another red light. Most of the newer left u-turn lanes also have a merge lane that lets you get up to speed with the traffic. Piss on round abouts, build over passes!

The one feature I did like about the Natchez Trace Parkway was the way traffic entered and left the Parkway. The thing I didn't like about it was advertising it as a bicycle route then a ranger telling me I had to get off and push my bike through poison ivy and snake filled woods. You need to be on that bicycle trail over there over a 100 yards away. Where and how do you get on that trail? I don't know he said but you have to get off the Parkway. He told me he would arrest me if I didn't get off the Parkway. When I told him I was recording our conversation on my GoPro and I would sue the US Government if he did arrest me, he let me continue riding until the trail came within 50' or so of the Parkway then he asked me to please get on the trail. I did get on the trail then.
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alevand
human power expert

USA
3901 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2021 :  16:40:15  Show Profile  Visit alevand's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Last time I looked on google satellite, they cut a trail in the grass to get to the end of the bike trail pavement. I guess that's the best the dumb _____ could do.
https://goo.gl/maps/vucUDV457DfJvv4u7

quote:
Originally posted by Jerry

I have been thinking and saying for over 40 years all junctions should have an overpass. And here in TX at major interchanges there are left u-turn only lanes at over passes. This way you don't have to sit at a red light then make a 90 degree turn and sit at another red light. Most of the newer left u-turn lanes also have a merge lane that lets you get up to speed with the traffic. Piss on round abouts, build over passes!

The one feature I did like about the Natchez Trace Parkway was the way traffic entered and left the Parkway. The thing I didn't like about it was advertising it as a bicycle route then a ranger telling me I had to get off and push my bike through poison ivy and snake filled woods. You need to be on that bicycle trail over there over a 100 yards away. Where and how do you get on that trail? I don't know he said but you have to get off the Parkway. He told me he would arrest me if I didn't get off the Parkway. When I told him I was recording our conversation on my GoPro and I would sue the US Government if he did arrest me, he let me continue riding until the trail came within 50' or so of the Parkway then he asked me to please get on the trail. I did get on the trail then.



C:
Tony Levand
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Jerry
human power supergeek

USA
1692 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2021 :  18:41:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They should charge the idiot locals who use it as their personal drive way the same as any entrance fee to the other national parks and use that money to make a trail the entire length! No commercial vehicles my butt. We saw at least 3 in one day.
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