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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
814 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2013 :  07:10:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
on the WRRA page? The only 200m record in Phil's (???)

Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2538 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2013 :  07:49:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Check the box marked "show unratified records" to show all.

I also learned that if you click on the little circled "i" with yellow background, you see a "certificate" with more info on the record.

Larry Lem

Edited by - Larry Lem on 12/02/2013 07:51:59
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3860 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2013 :  07:51:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Geesh - I thought the whole bunch just got caught "cheating" by riding "funny-looking" bikes, and their records thrown out. Oh wait, this isn't the UCI!
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warren
human power expert

USA
6424 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2013 :  09:46:13  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right - The unratified entries have not had proper documentation submitted, so they are not records and will probably be removed soon. I changed the app to only show them if you select the proper check box. This means that many record categories are reasonably "soft". Start training now!


-Warren.
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
814 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2013 :  11:13:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sean's 200m is unratified? Woo Hoo! (?!?)

Edited by - delcrossv on 12/03/2013 14:27:41
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2538 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2013 :  20:33:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, the 100 mile record for adult male and masters male is wide open!!! Oh wait, it was wide open including the unratified records.

Larry Lem
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Jan v S
New Member

Netherlands
87 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2013 :  03:22:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Upright Mike

Where is Sean's first one hour records of I think 28.6 miles at Northbrook, then 29.7 miles at the ADT Velodrome? These were witnessed by valid observers (Warren Beauchamp, Chris Cortez, Larry Lem, Jonathan Dietrich, etc), and recorded by the HPRA transponder system, weren't they?

Someone on the WRRA Committee please explain why all these records are now unratified, or don't exist anymore even under the Historical data on the records page.

(my editorial) What is happening to our sport? We are getting WORST than the UCI in regards to not allowing records I don't want to ramble on endlessly again, but I am really ashamed of our sport if we keep overthinking the recognition of "valid" human powered achievements.



maybe because the NoCom is partly faired?
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Speedbiker
human power expert

USA
3835 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2013 :  06:38:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jan, the NoCom is totally legal within the WRRA predetermined definition of nonfaired. That being the bike is allowed to be faired, but not the rider. This has been very well vetted.
I believe part of the problem is that the people involved love racing and setting records, but bookkeeping is another matter.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6424 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2013 :  06:50:52  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
When was Sean's ADT Velodrome performance? I think that Sean's records were already surpassed before we started keeping WRRA records.

Mike, you have to understand that to become a records organization you have to have rules, and that if people do not follow those rules, their performances are not considered records.

-Warren.
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Upright Mike
human power expert

USA
3860 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2013 :  09:12:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm done with discussing anything anymore (above comments deleted). I apologize but I don't see what is so difficult about recognizing human powered achievements, when things like valid timing, reputable observers, a known velodrome distance, all I thought were in place (especially with Sean's One Hour records) It still boggles my mind that with a small world wide community passionate about this sport, we can't agree to recognize an accomplishment. Are the rules simply too hard for others to follow?

Edited by - Upright Mike on 12/03/2013 09:18:40
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2538 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2013 :  14:14:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sean made his hour record run at the "Home Depot Center" / "ADT Event Center", now "Stub Hub Center" (Carson Velodrome next to Cal St U at Dominguez Hills) in the summer of 2007. Raymond G, Jonathan D, Larry L, and Tom A were there as well as a few others. I think Paul G might have been there. Jonathan D made a video. I'm not sure where it is on YouTube.
Here is a BikeForums thread.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/340139-29-76-Miles-in-One-Hour-A-New-World-Record

Larry Lem

Edited by - Larry Lem on 12/03/2013 20:45:05
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
814 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2013 :  14:26:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't any records set at an HPRA event "automatically" verified as WRRA records?
(still not gettin' what the differing requirements are)
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warren
human power expert

USA
6424 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  05:50:07  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Records set at HPRA events are not automatically verified as WRRA events, though many of the questions in the process would already be answered. The racer still needs to submit the proper documentation, track needs to have been surveyed to get the correct length, etc.

-Warren.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6424 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  06:27:01  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Once again I will reiterate. No records that were previously ratified have been un-ratified. There were many potential records that were entered into the site after the Appledoorn events on the assumption that proper documentation would be submitted to substantiate the records. Members of the WRRA committee worked diligently with the Appledoorn race directors to try to get the proper documentation. This documentation was never provided, so the unratified records sat in a limbo unratified status on the WRRA site for many years. Maybe none of you noticed that a "green" record meant unratified (you would have needed to scroll to the bottom of the list to see that). Because these records were still unratified after many years, I decided that showing unratified results with the ratified ones was not fair to the racers who jumped though the hoops to get their records ratified, so I changed the default setting on the WRRA records page to not show the unratified results. You can still see them if you click the checkbox to show unratified records.



Edited by - warren on 12/04/2013 06:37:33
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
814 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  06:30:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have NB and Kenosha been surveyed? (I'd guess so) How is the timing strip calibration verified for these events?( just wondering if that's been done too) So all additional would be a video and the form? There's plenty of observers.
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warren
human power expert

USA
6424 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  06:39:32  Show Profile  Visit warren's Homepage  Reply with Quote
NB and Kenosha should be fine from a verified track length standpoint. The HPRA timing equipment is fine for setting WRRA records. I think the video is only needed if there are no official observers.

Edited by - warren on 12/04/2013 06:40:45
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2538 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  06:42:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suggest that anyone who intends to make a WRRA record attempt contact the WRRA committee members well ahead of time to get the forms to see what is required. Then one will know to take pictures of bike, helmet, video, have the officials note the timing equipment, certification of equipment, survey of course, etc. Many of these things are difficult or impossible to do after the event.

Ha, I just looked and the list of requirements is here!
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wrra/rules.htm#Record Verification

Proper documentation is needed verify that the rules were met.

Larry Lem

Edited by - Larry Lem on 12/04/2013 14:26:58
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
814 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  09:13:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I won't be telling the kid that the 37.426 mph junior record is unratified.

There's seperate junior record for girls? Or are girls/boys both together? (Don't see any girl's records- ratified or not)

Edited by - delcrossv on 12/04/2013 09:16:02
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Larry Lem
human power expert

South Sandwich Islands
2538 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2013 :  14:27:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All age classifications are separated into gender classifications as well. Else there would be no adult men's and women's classifications or masters men's and women's classifications.

Rider Classifications
Records will be recorded separately for the following classifications:
•Men or Women
•Junior - 16 years old and below
•Adult - 17 years old to 50 years old
•Masters - 51 and above

Perhaps the WRRA committee would consider changing the rule to say:

Rider Classifications
Records will be recorded separately for the following six classifications based on gender and age:

Gender
•Men or Women

Age
•Junior - 16 years old and below
•Adult - 17 years old to 50 years old
•Masters - 51 and above

Larry Lem

Edited by - Larry Lem on 12/05/2013 06:34:51
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delcrossv
recumbent guru

Vanuatu
814 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2013 :  07:44:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Lem


Perhaps the WRRA committee would consider changing the rule to say:

Rider Classifications
Records will be recorded separately for the following six classifications based on gender and age:

Gender
•Men or Women

Age
•Junior - 16 years old and below
•Adult - 17 years old to 50 years old
•Masters - 51 and above

Larry Lem



That would be clearer. Thanks Larry.
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LongJohn
recumbent guru

China
581 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2013 :  09:56:14  Show Profile  Visit LongJohn's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Might be clearer, but it says the same...
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